Tuesday, February 22, 2011
Electoral College -Yes
Tom Galisano a former candidate for governor of New York was on the Neil Cavuto Show today. His comments were directed at presidential elections. Galisono wants to do away with the Electoral College, because it can over ride popular vote. He made the statement the constitution makes no provision for an electoral college. I have a comment on that, which I will reserve for later in this article.
With the popular vote method, the candidate who has the most votes obviously wins. That is a democratic form of government. A straight democracy. Thomas Jefferson warned that form of government was the worst kind. It is the most easily subverted. If ever we abandon our Republic form of government it will only be a few years, if that, before elections are won by ballot box stuffing, or lost ballot boxes, or voided ballots etc.
The electoral college is another form of checks and balances. It is intended to safe guard elections, not subvert them.
Galisano indicates he is a republican, even though most of the talk about doing away with the electoral college emanates from the Left. Al Gore's supporters were the group that got this talk started after his loss to Bush in 2000.
Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. Just because Galisano portrays himself as a member of the right doesn't buy him instant credibility. Think for yourself and verify.
Here is my argument FOR the electoral college. It's part of the Republic form of government we have been handed down. Galisano is incorrect that there is no mention of it in the constitution .( See below). For those who want a simple majority style government, what do they say about 50 states of various population levels having the same number of senators? Rhode Island has as much say as Texas in the US senate. Some states barely have enough residents to warrant a congressman, but they are represented and states which should have more congressmen are deprived their rightful democratic share. But this is how a Republic is designed to work. The minority voice IS heard, it can not be drowned out by an over reaching majority. This also coincides with the recent move by the senate democrats that wanted to change the Rules of the Senate, to water down the filibuster threshold to 51 votes for cloture.
Galisano must be friends with Tom Harkin and Dick Durbin. These folks are staunch anti constitutionalists. For Galisano or anyone else to say provision for the electoral college isn't in the constitution is wrong.
Anyone wishing to do away with the electoral college method better be prepared to strike several sections of the constitution and if they were to attempt to do so without an amending process, for the sake of an election, then such a move would be a direct assault on the Supreme Law of the Land
Steve
++++++++++++++++++++
Constitutional Authority for an Electoral College
Article II Section I Clause 2, 3 and 4.
Also as revised by the 12th Amendment.
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
(The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not lie an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two-thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice-President.) (This clause in parentheses was superseded by the 12th Amendment.)
The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
Amendment 12 - Choosing the President, Vice-President. Ratified 6/15/1804.
(Note History The Electoral College)
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;
The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.
The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
With the popular vote method, the candidate who has the most votes obviously wins. That is a democratic form of government. A straight democracy. Thomas Jefferson warned that form of government was the worst kind. It is the most easily subverted. If ever we abandon our Republic form of government it will only be a few years, if that, before elections are won by ballot box stuffing, or lost ballot boxes, or voided ballots etc.
The electoral college is another form of checks and balances. It is intended to safe guard elections, not subvert them.
Galisano indicates he is a republican, even though most of the talk about doing away with the electoral college emanates from the Left. Al Gore's supporters were the group that got this talk started after his loss to Bush in 2000.
Beware of wolves in sheeps clothing. Just because Galisano portrays himself as a member of the right doesn't buy him instant credibility. Think for yourself and verify.
Here is my argument FOR the electoral college. It's part of the Republic form of government we have been handed down. Galisano is incorrect that there is no mention of it in the constitution .( See below). For those who want a simple majority style government, what do they say about 50 states of various population levels having the same number of senators? Rhode Island has as much say as Texas in the US senate. Some states barely have enough residents to warrant a congressman, but they are represented and states which should have more congressmen are deprived their rightful democratic share. But this is how a Republic is designed to work. The minority voice IS heard, it can not be drowned out by an over reaching majority. This also coincides with the recent move by the senate democrats that wanted to change the Rules of the Senate, to water down the filibuster threshold to 51 votes for cloture.
Galisano must be friends with Tom Harkin and Dick Durbin. These folks are staunch anti constitutionalists. For Galisano or anyone else to say provision for the electoral college isn't in the constitution is wrong.
Anyone wishing to do away with the electoral college method better be prepared to strike several sections of the constitution and if they were to attempt to do so without an amending process, for the sake of an election, then such a move would be a direct assault on the Supreme Law of the Land
Steve
++++++++++++++++++++
Constitutional Authority for an Electoral College
Article II Section I Clause 2, 3 and 4.
Also as revised by the 12th Amendment.
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.
(The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not lie an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; a quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two-thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice-President.) (This clause in parentheses was superseded by the 12th Amendment.)
The Congress may determine the Time of chusing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
Amendment 12 - Choosing the President, Vice-President. Ratified 6/15/1804.
(Note History The Electoral College)
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;
The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;
The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.
The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two-thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
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